Registriert: 09.08.2002 11:13 Beiträge: 13511 Wohnort: BY
Geschlecht: Männlich
Chimes of Freedom
Aufgenommen während der Amnesty International Tour im Jahre 1988. Veröffentlicht am 05. Mai 1988.
Mitwirkende Künstler: Bruce Springsteen - Gitarre, Gesang, Harmonika Nils Lofgren - Gitarre, Gesang Garry Tallent - Bass, Horn Danny Federici - Keyboards Roy Bittan - Keyboards Clarence Clemons - Saxophon, Percussion, Gesang Max Weinberg - Drums Tracy Chapman - Gesang Peter Gabriel - Gesang Jussu N'Dour - Gesang Mario Cruz - Saxophon Eddie Manion - Saxophon Mark Pender - Trompete Richie "La Bamba" Rosenberg - Trombone Mike Spengler - Trompete
Tracklist: Tougher Than the Rest Be True Chimes Of Freedom Born to Run
Infos: Vier Songs der "Human Rights Tour". Aufgenommen am 27. April 1988 in Los Angeles (Tougher Than the Rest), 28. März 1988 in Detroit (Be True), 3. Juli 1988 in Stockholm (Chimes of Freedom) und 27. April 1988 in Los Angeles (Born to Run).
Zitat:
Die Human Rights Tour:
Nach der "Tunnel of Love Express Tour" ging Bruce im Sommer 1988 mit Amnesty International auf die "Human Rights Now" Tour.
Mitwirkende Künstler waren: Bruce Springsteen & The E-Street Band Tracy Chapman Peter Gabriel Jussu N'Dour und Sting
02.09.1988 - WEMBLEY STADION, LONDON BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / CADILLAC RANCH / THE RIVER / SPARE PARTS / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / THUNDER ROAD / SHES THE ONE / GLORY DAYS / LIGHT OF DAY - LAND OF A 1000 DANCES / BORN TO RUN / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
04.09.1988 - PALAIS OMNISPORTS BERCY, PARIS BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / BRILLIANT DISGUISE / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / THUNDER ROAD / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / BOBBY JEAN / RAISE YOUR HAND / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
05.09.1988 - PALAIS OMNISPORTS BERCY, PARIS BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / BRILLIANT DISGUISE / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / THUNDER ROAD / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / BECAUSE THE NIGHT / RAISE YOUR HAND / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
06.09.1988 - NEPSTADION, BUDAPEST BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / WORKING ON THE HIGHWAY / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / THUNDER ROAD / HUNGRY HEART / GLORY DAYS / RAISE YOUR HAND / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
08.09.1988 - STADIO COMMUNALE, TURIN BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / WORKING ON THE HIGHWAY / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / THUNDER ROAD / BECAUSE THE NIGHT / GLORY DAYS / RAISE YOUR HAND / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
10.09.1988 - CAMP NEU STADIUM, BARCELONA BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / BRILLIANT DISGUISE / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / BECAUSE THE NIGHT / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / RAISE YOUR HAND / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
13.09.1988 - NATIONAL STADIUM, SAN JOSE, COSTA RICA BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / BRILLIANT DISGUISE / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / BECAUSE THE NIGHT / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / RAISE YOUR HAND / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
15.09.1988 - MAPLE LEAF GARDENS, TORONTO, KANADA BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / BRILLIANT DISGUISE / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / THUNDER ROAD / DANCING IN THE DARK / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / RAISE YOUR HAND / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
17.09.1988 - OLYMPIC STADIUM, MONTREAL, KANADA BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / BRILLIANT DISGUISE / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / THUNDER ROAD / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / TWIST AND SHOUT / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
19.09.1988 - JFK STADIUM, PHILADELPHIA, USA BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / JUNGLELAND / THUNDER ROAD / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / RAISE YOUR HAND / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
21.09.1988 - COLISEUM, LOS ANGELES, USA BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / JUNGLELAND / THUNDER ROAD / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / RAISE YOUR HAND / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
23.09.1988 - COLISEUM STADIUM, OAKLAND, USA WAR / BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / TUNNEL OF LOVE / BRILLIANT DISGUISE / THE RIVER / I AIN'T GOT NO HOME / COVER ME / CADILLAC RANCH / MY HOMETOWN / THUNDER ROAD / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / RAISE YOUR HAND / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
27.09.1988 - TOKYO DOME, TOKYO, JAPAN BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / BRILLIANT DISGUISE / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / THUNDER ROAD / DANCING IN THE DARK / I'M ON FIRE / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / RAISE YOUR HAND / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
30.09.1988 - JAWAHARLAL NEHRU STADIUM, NEU DELHI, INDIEN BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / THUNDER ROAD / DANCING IN THE DARK / I'M ON FIRE / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / RAISE YOUR HAND / TWIST AND SHOUT / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
03.10.1988 - NEW OLYMPIC STADIUM, ATHENS, GRIECHENLAND BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / THUNDER ROAD / DANCING IN THE DARK / I'M ON FIRE / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / TWIST AND SHOUT / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
07.10.1988 - NATIONAL SPORTS STADIUM, HARARE, SIMBABWE BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / I'M ON FIRE / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / DANCING IN THE DARK / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / TWIST AND SHOUT / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
09.10.1988 - STADE HOUPHUET-BOIGNY, ABIDJAN BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / I'M ON FIRE / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / DANCING IN THE DARK / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / TWIST AND SHOUT / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
12.10.1988 - PALMEIRAS STADIUM, SAO PAULO, BRASILIEN BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / I'M ON FIRE / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / DANCING IN THE DARK / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / TWIST AND SHOUT / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
14.10.1988 - ESTADIO MENDOZA, MENDOZA, ARGENTINIEN BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / I'M ON FIRE / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / DANCING IN THE DARK / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / TWIST AND SHOUT / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
15.10.1988 - RIVER PLATE STADIUM, BUENOS AIRES, ARGENTINIEN BORN IN THE USA / THE PROMISED LAND / COVER ME / THE RIVER / CADILLAC RANCH / WAR / MY HOMETOWN / DANCING IN THE DARK / I'M ON FIRE / GLORY DAYS / BORN TO RUN / RAISE YOUR HAND / TWIST AND SHOUT / CHIMES OF FREEDOM / GET UP STAND UP
Registriert: 09.08.2002 11:13 Beiträge: 13511 Wohnort: BY
Geschlecht: Männlich
Zitat:
Declaration of Human Rights:
Article 1 All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Article 2 Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, nonself-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.
Article 3 Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.
Article 4 No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.
Article 5 No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
Article 6 Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
Article 7 All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.
Article 8 Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.
Article 9 No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
Article 10 Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.
Article 11 Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence. No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.
Article 12 No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
Article 13 Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state. Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.
Article 14 Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution. This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.
Article 15 Everyone has the right to a nationality. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
Article 16 Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution. Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses. The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.
Article 17 Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.
Article 18 Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion: this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
Article 19 Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart in formation and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
Article 20 Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association. No one may be compelled to belong to an association.
Article 21 Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives. Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country. The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.
Article 22 Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.
Article 23 Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment. Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work. Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection. Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.
Article 24 Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.
Article 25 Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control. Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
Article 26 Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit. Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace. Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.
Article 27 Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits. Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.
Article 28 Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.
Article 29 Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible. In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society. These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.
Article 30 Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.
Aufgenommen während der Amnesty International Tour im Jahre 1988. Veröffentlicht am 05. Mai 1988.
...
Tracy Chapman - Gesang Peter Gabriel - Gesang Jussu N'Dour - Gesang
...
Vier Songs der "Human Rights Tour".
...
Hier stimmt einiges nicht: - aufgenommen während der "Tunnel of Love"-Tour - veröffentlicht nach dem 3. Juli 1988 - die drei Genannten singen hier sicherlich nirgendwo mit - dafür fehlt Patti. Ihr Schlafzimmerblick aus dem "Tougher..."-Video ist sicherlich ein Höhepunkt der Springsteenschen Videogeschichte
_________________ Tonight our bed is cold I'm lost in the darkness of our love God have mercy on the man Who doubts what he's sure of
Registriert: 02.07.2008 13:48 Beiträge: 242 Wohnort: bei AB
Geschlecht: Männlich
@Floyd: Danke das Du mal wieder an diese Tour erinnerst. Das war damals ein echtes Highlight, ein solch deutliches Statement wäre sicherlich öfters notwendig. Ich erinnere mich noch an die Übertragung in einem "Dritten", ich glaube HR3. Damals konnte ich terrestrisch nur ARD, ZDF und BR3 vernünftig empfangen und habe mir das Konzert (ich glaube Abschluss in Buenos Aires) verschneit auf HR3 angesehen. Für die Musik war es das trotzdem wert, alleine die Kombi Twist-and-Shout/LaBamba.
Gibt es von der Tour oder dem Abschlusskonzert eigentlich vernünftige Audio- oder Videoaufnahmen außer der Chimes of Freedom-LP? Das Vinylschätzchen steht selbstverständlich gut behütet bei den anderen...
Registriert: 09.08.2002 11:13 Beiträge: 13511 Wohnort: BY
Geschlecht: Männlich
Mission Man 1961 hat geschrieben:
Hier stimmt einiges nicht: - aufgenommen während der "Tunnel of Love"-Tour - veröffentlicht nach dem 3. Juli 1988 - die drei Genannten singen hier sicherlich nirgendwo mit - dafür fehlt Patti. Ihr Schlafzimmerblick aus dem "Tougher..."-Video ist sicherlich ein Höhepunkt der Springsteenschen Videogeschichte
stimmt. veröffentlichung muss ca. am 5. August gewesen sein. Die EP wurde anlässlich der Human Rights Now Tour veröffentlicht.
@Floyd: Danke das Du mal wieder an diese Tour erinnerst. Das war damals ein echtes Highlight, ein solch deutliches Statement wäre sicherlich öfters notwendig. Ich erinnere mich noch an die Übertragung in einem "Dritten", ich glaube HR3. Damals konnte ich terrestrisch nur ARD, ZDF und BR3 vernünftig empfangen und habe mir das Konzert (ich glaube Abschluss in Buenos Aires) verschneit auf HR3 angesehen. Für die Musik war es das trotzdem wert, alleine die Kombi Twist-and-Shout/LaBamba.
Gibt es von der Tour oder dem Abschlusskonzert eigentlich vernünftige Audio- oder Videoaufnahmen außer der Chimes of Freedom-LP? Das Vinylschätzchen steht selbstverständlich gut behütet bei den anderen...
Gruß, jykke
Ich glaube die Fernsehübertragung die du ansprichst, gibt es im Dschungel.
@Floyd: Danke das Du mal wieder an diese Tour erinnerst. Das war damals ein echtes Highlight, ein solch deutliches Statement wäre sicherlich öfters notwendig. Ich erinnere mich noch an die Übertragung in einem "Dritten", ich glaube HR3. Damals konnte ich terrestrisch nur ARD, ZDF und BR3 vernünftig empfangen und habe mir das Konzert (ich glaube Abschluss in Buenos Aires) verschneit auf HR3 angesehen. Für die Musik war es das trotzdem wert, alleine die Kombi Twist-and-Shout/LaBamba.
Gibt es von der Tour oder dem Abschlusskonzert eigentlich vernünftige Audio- oder Videoaufnahmen außer der Chimes of Freedom-LP? Das Vinylschätzchen steht selbstverständlich gut behütet bei den anderen...
Registriert: 22.11.2008 09:03 Beiträge: 109 Wohnort: Frankfurt am Main
Jupp,
habs noch auf Video,..... Das Ding war echt gigantisch und der Meister hats den Herren (Sting, P. Gabriel) und Damen mal so richtig gezeigt, wie man ein Stadion rockt. Habs damals im "Club" bei uns geguckt und viele "nicht Bruce Jünger" waren danach überzeugt!
Registriert: 17.06.2003 08:57 Beiträge: 9117 Wohnort: Bad Münstereifel
Frankfodder hat geschrieben:
Jupp,
habs noch auf Video,..... Das Ding war echt gigantisch und der Meister hats den Herren (Sting, P. Gabriel) und Damen mal so richtig gezeigt, wie man ein Stadion rockt. Habs damals im "Club" bei uns geguckt und viele "nicht Bruce Jünger" waren danach überzeugt!
Gruß
Man konnte den Eindruck gewinnen das die beiden geradezu ehrfurchtsvoll dem Boss das Feld überließen. Für mich war das Konzert der endgültige Durchbruch Springsteens in meine Favoritenliste. Positiv aufgefallen war mir auch damals,das da ein "Kerl" auf der Bühne stand...das war immerhin die Zeit des Michael Jackson,Prince..sorry The Symbol ,George Michael ,Depeche Mode und Kajagogoo. Popper waren angesagt und ich kam mir in meinen Levis-Jeans und Baumwollhemden wie ein Alien vor.
Registriert: 02.07.2008 13:48 Beiträge: 242 Wohnort: bei AB
Geschlecht: Männlich
Geronimo hat geschrieben:
Frankfodder hat geschrieben:
Jupp,
habs noch auf Video,..... Das Ding war echt gigantisch und der Meister hats den Herren (Sting, P. Gabriel) und Damen mal so richtig gezeigt, wie man ein Stadion rockt. Habs damals im "Club" bei uns geguckt und viele "nicht Bruce Jünger" waren danach überzeugt!
Gruß
Man konnte den Eindruck gewinnen das die beiden geradezu ehrfurchtsvoll dem Boss das Feld überließen. Für mich war das Konzert der endgültige Durchbruch Springsteens in meine Favoritenliste. Positiv aufgefallen war mir auch damals,das da ein "Kerl" auf der Bühne stand...das war immerhin die Zeit des Michael Jackson,Prince..sorry The Symbol ,George Michael ,Depeche Mode und Kajagogoo. Popper waren angesagt und ich kam mir in meinen Levis-Jeans und Baumwollhemden wie ein Alien vor.
Danke!
... und ich dachte nur mir ging es damals so... Und ich hatte auch noch lange Haare
Registriert: 22.11.2008 09:03 Beiträge: 109 Wohnort: Frankfurt am Main
Recht habt Ihr,
wobei in unserem "Club" eigentlich nur "Heavy Metal" durch die Boxen Pfiff,..... ab da hatte ich dann auch mal ne gute Chance, Bruce aufzulegen und es gefiel so manchem "Langharigem"
...und "Twist and shout/La Bamba" war echt der Hammer. Hat er auch in Frankfurt gespielt, aber die Südamerikaner waren dann doch noch etwas temperamentvoller , ... määäänsch, sind die abgegangen, ich hab immernoch dieses wellende Hüpfen im Kopf,... da ist echt die Sau geflogen,....
kann es sein, dass bei der Show in Buenos Aires nur der Innenraum voll mit Menschen war, die Ränge des Stadions aber leer waren? es kommt mir so vor, wenn man es sich anschaut
Registriert: 04.01.2008 01:46 Beiträge: 479 Wohnort: Bad Lippspringe
Geschlecht: Männlich
Kelly hat geschrieben:
4 unglaublich gute Songs in noch unglaublicheren Live-Versionen ...... Wie schimpft sich das Ding eigentlich ??? Mini-LP ????
Soetwas nennt man MAXI-CD, oder in der Vinyl-Variante MAXI-SINGLE.Gruß Klausi.
_________________ No retreat no surrender, and always glory days 1988-Bremen,1993-Dortmund,1999-Bremen,2003-Gelsenkirchen,2007-Köln,2009-Frankfurt,2012-Köln,2013-Hannover,2016-Berlin,2023-Düsseldorf,Hamburg,München,2024-Prag,Nijmegen,Hannover,2025-Prag (re-bruced)
Mitglieder in diesem Forum: 0 Mitglieder und 9 Gäste
Du darfst keine neuen Themen in diesem Forum erstellen. Du darfst keine Antworten zu Themen in diesem Forum erstellen. Du darfst deine Beiträge in diesem Forum nicht ändern. Du darfst deine Beiträge in diesem Forum nicht löschen.